Thunberg in Tbilisi: ”Climate Activism and Human Rights Are United”

After a long journey across Europe, Greta Thunberg has arrived in the protest-filled Georgia. Over a pizza, she tells Rasmus Canbäck about her criticism of the upcoming COP29 climate summit in Azerbaijan, her own journey as an activist, and how the climate summit risks becoming a political tool in the hands of regimes that violate human rights.

Outside the café, busloads of riot police drive past on their way to the parliament. In a few hours, images of protesters will be broadcast around the world. One of them will be Greta Thunberg, though for now, few people know she is in Georgia.

”I’ve traveled here from Stockholm, crossing the continent. It’s been an amazing experience where I’ve been able to stop in many different countries, meet local activists, and learn about different local and national political contexts. I’m very grateful to be making this journey,” she says, listing the countries she traveled through: Hungary, Bulgaria, and Turkey, among others.

”The interesting thing is that the more authoritarian a country is, the more the people seem to show their best sides.”

She is almost at her final destination—or as close to it as she can get. Azerbaijan, where the COP29 climate summit will be held, has closed land borders. Until recently, this was formally due to COVID restrictions. Now the regime claims it is a matter of security. Greta Thunberg has a principle of never flying, which means she cannot enter the closed dictatorship.

”The population in Azerbaijan is trapped. They can’t travel in or out of the country except through the airport. Even if I could go there, I wouldn’t. I don’t want to legitimize the regime,” Greta Thunberg explains.

She has no expectations for the climate summit, either.

”The only thing that will come out of it is loopholes, more negotiations, and symbolic decisions that look good on paper but are really just greenwashing,” says the now 21-year-old Greta Thunberg.

The plan is to stay in Georgia until COP29 begins. After that, she will travel on to Armenia.

”I don’t know how long I’ll stay there. But every day, five different things come up that completely change the situation, and I have to adapt to them. I’m taking it one day at a time.”

What issues do you plan to raise while you’re here?

“Well, it’s partly about using the COP platform for these issues. We can’t keep going as we are now. We can’t pretend that a conference that gives legitimacy to authoritarian states that don’t respect fundamental human rights…”

She doesn’t get further before she’s interrupted by the café staff. A young guy brings over a sourdough pizza.

“It’s vegan. It’s on the house,” he says.

Greta Thunberg laughs softly and looks wide-eyed at the pizza.

“I haven’t found any vegan food for two days and have been living on pretzels. Broccoli… it’s been a while,” she says, taking a slice.

Does this happen often?

“Usually it happens after the meal. Then they want to treat me to desserts, and I’m usually too full to eat them, but have to pretend. I never know how to react to it. I haven’t figured it out,” she says, then goes quiet.

“Admit it, this is going to be the whole content of the article! Anyway, where was I?”

You were saying that climate conferences are exploited by authoritarian states.

“Right. In countries like Sweden, many people are surprised when you talk about how climate activism, the LGBTQ movement, and human rights are interconnected. But in countries where people face repression and rights violations every day, activists see a clearer connection. Of course, we can’t talk about the climate until our fundamental human rights are met. ‘We can’t talk about the climate if we can’t go out on the street and hold a sign,’ they say. Unfortunately, the climate crisis is extremely urgent, so it has to happen simultaneously. Climate activism and human rights are united.”

When did this realization start to form for you?

“Every day. More and more. Excuse me…”

Greta Thunberg coughs from a peppercorn in the pizza.

“I have water here… hold on,” she says, pulling out a half-liter aluminum bottle from her pants—a keepsake from a 2022 conference in Stockholm.

“It’s the most valuable thing I have,” she jokes.

“I spent a long time looking for practical pants where I could fit this. Next time I start a sit-in, it’ll be for girls’ right to have pockets in their pants,” she says, taking a sip.

She insists that the image of her as solely focused on climate has always been misleading.

“It wasn’t even the climate that first got me involved. My first protest was during the 2015 refugee wave. Here’s the thing: I go to protests for all sorts of causes all the time. I always have, even during all the years people have associated me only with the climate issue.”

Today, she sees her role as the face of a climate movement more as a matter of chance.

“For me, it hasn’t been solely about the climate at all. The media often wants to simplify things, like ‘she’s the one who works on climate.’ They want to put a face to the issue. I mean, we’re talking about climate justice. All forms of justice are included within climate justice. In the last year, when I started getting involved in Palestinian activism, that view has shifted.”

In what way?

“That’s when a new media narrative emerged that I had become ‘radicalized.’ People wanted to make it seem more controversial, and so the image of me became more radicalized. It’s always like that; when there’s friction, opinions form, and people think I should stick to the core issue, or they think it’s good that I’m broadening my focus. It’s divided.”

How has the past year been? Regarding your activism on Palestine.

“What’s been hardest is seeing images from Palestine. Your heart breaks every time. It’s also been difficult to see people I thought were compassionate change completely, saying things are ‘complicated’ or even that the Palestinians deserve what’s happening. It’s been painful to see the world show its true face.”

At the same time, Greta Thunberg reflects on things she could have done differently over the years.

“There are probably some media appearances I shouldn’t have done. I did them because I thought I had the microphone and that the message was the most important thing. It was perhaps good in one way, but in another, it fed the image of me as just a spokesperson for climate, which I really wasn’t. There’s a disconnect there.”

Would you say you’re more cynical now than when you were sixteen?

“I was pretty cynical at sixteen too. Or rather, a part of me is much more cynical and pessimistic because I’ve seen that nothing seems to make a difference. But I also believe that you have to do something for anything to happen. Another part of me is more optimistic because I’m finding places where change is possible and where people can make a difference. These opposite developments are happening within me at the same time.”

As a young teenager, she began her sit-in outside the Swedish Parliament for the climate. Now, six years later, just a block away from the protests in Tbilisi, it feels like another time.

“I think everyone changes between ages 15 and 21. It would be strange if they didn’t. Of course, there’s a big difference. But at the same time, not so much. When we started striking, we knew that those in power weren’t listening to us. Why would they? Scientists and the climate movement have been trying to get the same message across for decades now, so why would we be able to make a difference?”

Even today, she has the same view of those in power.

“Every time those in power get a chance to act, they choose not to and instead listen to industries that destroy the planet and violate human rights, rather than doing what’s right. I want to spread awareness, focus on grassroots activism, and support those who are trying to make a difference.”

How have you changed as an activist over these years?

“In all sorts of ways. In one way, it’s much harder to be an activist today with the level of repression in the world. On a personal level, it’s tough that people use me to attack others, like hating on my friends or similar things. I’ve long accepted that hate will be directed at me. But as an activist, I feel more comfortable now and with what I prioritize.”

Last spring, the Azerbaijani Ministry of Foreign Affairs made a statement in support of Greta Thunberg. She had just been detained by Dutch police after a protest, and Azerbaijan emphasized the importance of allowing climate activists to demonstrate freely at COP29.

“Publicly, it’s absurd that an authoritarian regime uses me as an excuse to justify its own human rights violations, the [Armenian] prisoners of war, the hostage-taking [of dissidents], and then claims solidarity with me for being detained in a climate protest.”

How will you approach COP29?

“I’ll meet with Azerbaijani activists who aren’t in Azerbaijan, as well as with Georgian and Armenian activists. The Azerbaijani regime that oppresses its own civil population is the same one waging war against Armenians.”

She concludes by criticizing the fact that climate summits are held in authoritarian countries.

“I’m also here to highlight that we can’t legitimize COP meetings in their current form. The last three years, they’ve taken place in authoritarian regimes, and holding them in such places leads nowhere.”